Recommended Reading and Viewing

[Coír Draoi Ceítien]

There's lots of books out there, not to mention lots of tastes. What do you feel people would want to read? This is the place where you can share your ideas. It can be books that you've read or books that you only have an idea of but think it would suit others. That's because I've definitely not read all these books, of course, but I know ABOUT them, and I'm sure that they would fit whatever moods you might be in, hopefully.

For those interested in dragons: Tooth and Claw by Jo Walton

A segment of the story in the Well of Visions, Bluerose31's "The Land of Ayra", reminded me of this story. I've not read it, but I've heard good things about it, and it's racked up the 2004 World Fantasy Award for Best Novel. It's all about dragons, being told in the style of Victorian popular author Anthony Trollope as a fantasy of manners - despite them still doing dragon things, they act according to Victorian social mores. If you want dragons as characters, like classic Victorian literature, and want a good laugh as much as a good story, it sounds like this might be the one for you.

https://www.amazon.com/Tooth-Claw-Jo-Walton/dp/0765319519/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1511468947&sr=8-1&keywords=tooth+and+claw+jo+walton

For those who want more Tolkien: The Fionavar Tapestry by Guy Gavriel Kay

I haven't FINISHED this series, but it's currently shaping up to be one of the best reads in fantasy I've ever had. Before Kay turned to his signature historical fantasies, he wrote this Tolkienian homage as an example of how it could be done without being entirely derivative. It's a mix of Celtic and Arthurian influences with some good portal fantasy thrown in. As I've stated before, Kay also served as co-editor of The Silmarillion, extensively studying Tolkien's rough notes, so it comes with a special pedigree that other series wish they had.

https://www.amazon.com/Summer-Tree-Book-Fionavar-Tapestry/dp/0451458222/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1511469001&sr=1-1&keywords=the+fionavar+tapestry
https://www.amazon.com/Wandering-Fire-Book-Fionavar-Tapestry/dp/0451458265/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1511469001&sr=1-3&keywords=the+fionavar+tapestry
https://www.amazon.com/Darkest-Road-Three-Fionavar-Tapestry/dp/0451458338/ref=sr_1_4?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1511469001&sr=1-4&keywords=the+fionavar+tapestry

For those who want more Game of Thrones: Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn by Tad Williams

Even George R. R. Martin needs inspiration sometimes, and this is the series that inspired Game of Thrones. By the sound of it, it has some similarities, particularly with the overarching plot of an ancient kingdom threatened by undead immortal hordes; it's also supposed to serve as a commentary on the many tropes that have been (over)utilized by and since Tolkien, so I would expect some deconstruction. Technically, the series is still going, as Williams has started something of a sequel series just this year (2017), but I would concentrate just on the original trilogy.

https://www.amazon.com/Dragonbone-Chair-Memory-Sorrow-Thorn/dp/0756402697/ref=sr_1_1_twi_pap_4?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1511469069&sr=1-1&keywords=memory+sorrow+and+thorn
https://www.amazon.com/Stone-Farewell-Memory-Sorrow-Thorn/dp/0756402972/ref=sr_1_2_twi_pap_4?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1511469069&sr=1-2&keywords=memory+sorrow+and+thorn
https://www.amazon.com/Green-Angel-Tower-Osten-Ard/dp/0756402980/ref=sr_1_3_twi_pap_4?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1511469069&sr=1-3&keywords=memory+sorrow+and+thorn

[The series is also available in a cheaper mass market format. Keep in mind that the third volume has thus been split into two volumes in said format.]

Feel free to give out your own recommendations. By all means, do better than me - I'm seriously underread, and I can only go on summaries and suggestion. Don't let my inexperience discourage you.

[Raven]

Coir, your capacity for synthesizing literary stuff is incredible.

Which is why I call you The Archivist.

At any rate, should we consider doing a recommended book every month, something that can be purchased inexpensively? Or a recommended movie? Could be one month its a recommended book, another month its a recommended movie? Each month could be a thread, and those who read/watch can discuss it then?

Could come out on the first of each month, and we definitely have enough resources already for a selection for each month. We could do it bi-weekly eventually if people like it.

[Coír Draoi Ceítien]

I'm for it. However, you gotta remember that I haven't actually read all these books. I'd be happy to give recommendations, but you should probably consider doing some entries yourself, so we could probably cover a lot more ground that way.

Heck, I probably know what my next recommendation is going to be, anyway. I'll try to get a movie for you, as well.

[Nephmodule]

Hi guys, first post here on, but I'll toss out some things. 

First, Melusine (Doctrine Of Labyrinths) by Sarah Monette has a more 19th century Victoriana fantasy-drama feel to it than the typical medievalesque fantasy or historical fantasy. I've just discovered it and began to read it primarily for the purpose of reading something fresh -- I understand that the later books become more steampunk-fantasy like.
It has some dark subject matter, so beware.

The Darkness That Comes Before (Prince Of Nothing #1) by R. Scott Bakker. 
    Honestly, i've only read the opening chapter of this one. It seems rather profound and deeply interwoven with philosophical teachings, but at the same time comes off intimidating. But I'm gonna try to give it a shot. If any of you have read it lemme know.

And, Hey! I'm Max!

[Raven]

Hey Max!

Welcome! The fantasy Victorian thing sounds good. I know the Steampunk genre loves that time period, and while I am interested in Steam Punk, I haven't read any, really.
But when I think of Victorian fantasy, I am reminded of A Picture of Dorian Grey, which is set in London and which I read in London. Great Victorian type of fantasy.

Coir, have you heard of these authors? May need to research for the Master of Fantasy series if not.

So good to have you join us, Max. Feel free to peruse and jump in wherever you want.

(Just in case you signed up with another account and want, you can change your display name through your profile if you want an alias like some of us goofballs use. Or you can use a real name. Just letting you know it's possible).



Speaking of recommended viewing. Last night I stayed up late and watched Dave Made a Maze (2017). Talk about a movie with a remarkable set. It's a comic fantasy horror film set in a "labyrinth" that a young man makes in he and his girlfriend's apartment living room. The maze begins to take on a life of its own, including a minotaur. People get trapped inside. Some good comic bits and a light-weight fantasy flick and indy film.

[Nephmodule]

[(Just in case you signed up with another account and want, you can change your display name through your profile if you want an alias like some of us goofballs use. Or you can use a real name. Just letting you know it's possible).]

Ah! Gotit! Thanks for the heads-upper! I'm a goofballer like ya'll, too, just wasn't familiar to this particular platform. 

Eh, I'm not a steampunker myself, but I hear it's gaining some huge momentum and always have been a bit curious about it. And I'm always on the lookout for something new and different. Variety truly is the spice of life. 

[Raven]

Gotcha.

I went to a theme-punk themed party once in the attic of an old Victorian era house. . . I think I went as an inspector/detective of some kind. That's about the closest I've come to being a steampunker. Hah!

So, Nephmodule, if steam-punk isn't your thing, what's your interest?

I myself am a fantasy writer, map enthusiast, and general collector of curiosities, whether digital or otherwise. I work with some particularity on my own writing projects as well as collaborating with any one who starts a tale here (in the Well of Visions) for me to join in on. I don't discriminate; if someone starts something with a bit of narrative, I'll typically jump in on it.

[Nephmodule]

 

Nephmodule, if steam-punk isn't your thing, what's your interest?

I myself am a fantasy writer, map enthusiast, and general collector of curiosities, whether digital or otherwise. I work with some particularity on my own writing projects as well as collaborating with any one who starts a tale here (in the Well of Visions) for me to join in on. I don't discriminate; if someone starts something with a bit of narrative, I'll typically jump in on it. 

What's my interest? I'm a man of a thousand interest really and yet a master of none of those.
I am a novelist who'd describe my most well-recieved series (Paladin Cycle) as a 'contemporary epic cosmic fantasy' if I wanted to be all fancy -- but mostly, it's fiction with elements of fantasy, science-fiction, romance, and drama . . . general fiction? Slipstream? They call Stephen King a 'horror' writer but most of what he writes isn't horror, so why classify?

I'm inspired by Lovecraft, Richard Laymon, Jim Morrison. I'm also from the south -- United States, southern -- and that doodle don't leave your blood, man. But I'm also a fan of philosophy, psychology and history, and occultism. 

Like I said, I'm a man of a thousand interest.

I spend a lotta time worldbuilding, locations, settings, environments, atmospheres, new societies, religions, cultures, and figuring out the myriad assortment of conflicts all those things can create. For my novels, I've created a multiverse inwhich I keep track of different things and events and happenings and characters from multiple timelines and alternate timelines on a private wiki. 

I like Faulkner and x-rated movies and Emily Dickinson and death metal music. 

I'm the cliche and the definition of a walking contradiction.

[Raven]

I have spent considerable time in the American south, though I am not from there. I've also read a fair bit of Southern Gothic literature.
Your second to last sentence would likely make Emily Dickinson blush, but then again, she'd have no idea what you were talking about.

Labels are useful until they're not. That about sums up my thoughts on the matter of labeling things.

It's nice to have a novelist around, and a world builder at that.
I've been working on something similar -- a connecting thread that conjoins all the worlds I've created.
There's one world I've been working on since I was a kid, slowly, revisiting the storyline every so often, but never writing more than outlines and thinking about it. In the meantime, I've written a number of other books, but have left that early story alone. Just in the past couple days it has dawned on me how I want to tie it in. That's a lot of the joy of world-building for me. I don't care too much about making money on my "artistic" endeavors, anymore. I was a traveling musician for some years beating the bush for opportunities but am now in a much more stable line of work.  I like doing what I do for enjoyment. If others enjoy it too, that's great.

Welcome again. Hope you stick around.


On the topic of the recommended reading/viewing:
Since it's the holidays, let's do a recommended movie for the month of December. Do you want to pick one Coir?

[Nephmodule]

I have an utmost admiration for anyone who even remotely can carry a tune, and so a musician is a magician from my perspective of reality.  I enjoy almost forms of musical genres, but I could never learn to make music. 

instead though, I've listened to about any and every genre of music I've come across and wondered 'what narrative does this song speak to me?'  (and that same song can speak an infinite narratives depending on what frame of mind the listener is in, which for someone like me can shape countless different stories of different genres) 

I'm sure I've taken this thread completely off-topic by now but I'll tell ya, I've never been a fan of the whole online-forum concept of "off-topic' as I feel it discourages or at the very least interrupts free-thought, stream-of-consciousness -- and that's the kind of thinking that keeps communities thriving. 

[Coír Draoi Ceítien]

Yeah, it's technically off-topic, but we don't have a space for it otherwise. Therefore, I think I'll correct that.

Anyway, it's taken me a bit to find a movie that I've seen that I can recommend to fantasy lovers. There's lots of fantasy movies I haven't seen, but I want to stick with what I really know about. Thus...

Recommended Viewing for December: The Addams Family (Barry Sonnenfeld, 1991) and Addams Family Values (Barry Sonnenfeld, 1993)

I freaking love these movies. I was just going to recommend the first, but the more I think about it, I can't talk about one without the other. Based on both the classic Charles Addams cartoons from The New Yorker and the 1960s television series, these delightfully macabre dark comedies follow an eccentrically "horrific" family of unspecified supernatural abilities. The greatest strengths come from the excellent cast and the hilariously normalized black humor/outrageously sharp dialogue, often contrasted with a "normal" world that can be quite terrifying and oppressive in its own right. Definitely a must-watch.

https://www.amazon.com/Addams-Family-Values-Movie-Collection/dp/B01MSYVLU7/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1512152575&sr=8-6&keywords=the+addams+family

Also, considering that, as of this writing, it's a new month, I have another book for you.

For December - if you like classic English literature: Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell by Susanna Clarke

A slight warning: this is a 1,000+ page tome, so I wouldn't call it light reading. For those brave enough, this modern classic follows two magicians in an alternate history England in which magic once ruled the land as they try to probe the ancient mystical secrets and end up crossing with the ambiguously malevolent world of Faerie. A highly praised first novel, it's a good sign if this is the direction of modern fantasy.

Mass Market: https://www.amazon.com/Jonathan-Strange-Mr-Norrell-Novel/dp/0765356155/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1512152770&sr=8-1&keywords=jonathan+strange+%26+mr.+norrell+by+susanna+clarke
Trade: https://www.amazon.com/Jonathan-Strange-Norrell-Susanna-Clarke/dp/1620409909/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1512152770&sr=8-1
Kindle: https://www.amazon.com/Jonathan-Strange-Norrell-Susanna-Clarke-ebook/dp/B003RRXXMA/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1512152770&sr=8-1

[Raven]

Personally, I don't care if things go off topic. That's what conversations tend to do.
As for music. It's still a great enjoyment of mine, and I still do a fair bit of it. Normally in church now-adays, but I'm playing for a dance tomorrow night, and do shows every once in a great while.

You have me interested in this book, Coir. It may have to be reading for me. Also, I think my lady would be agreeable to watching those films. I will see what she thinks and we might make an evening of it. I'll try to comply with December's recommended choices.

[Nephmodule]

I began reading Memory, Sorrow & Thorne by Tad Williams a few days ago. I thought it was interesting that this book is endorsed by GRRM and he swears its' his favorite epic fantasy. Confession time: I've only read about 60% of Game Of Thrones as the SoI&F books are intimidating behemoths, but I'm a diehard fan of the show. 

Anyways, I've definitely started to see some things in MS&T that confirms that GRRM took some pointers from this book. The main character, Simon, is said to enjoy climbing about the castle walls, for one. 

But here's something else I noticed: First, you may not be aware of this, but the pilot episode of the new Outer Limits television show from the '90s is called "The Sand Kings" and is based on a script written by GRRM which is based on a short story he also wrote. In the story, a scientist has a tank of sand in which he is growing little sand creatures. 

Well, I've just come across a scene in MS&T where the castle physician has a tank with sand inside of it and he feeds small rodents to it. 

This book must've really made an impact on GRRM for sure. 

[Raven]

Those are very interesting connections to GRRM. It's amazing how things can have a big influence on us, even if we're not conscious of it.

How would you say MS&T is outside of the influence on GRRM? A good read in and of itself?

[Nephmodule]

I am only five chapters into the book right now, so I've barely scratched the surface. However, here's my thoughts thus far: 

The first book in the series is called The DRAGONEBONE CHAIR and the currnt king is KING JOHN.  Is it possible that this 'Dragonebone' chair gave GRRM the idea for the dragon skulls in the SoI&F? And is GRRM's JON inspired by the King JOHN who current sits upon this Dragonbone throne?  Or is it purely coincidence?

MS&T, as far as I've gotten, is only one POV right now, Simon. Simon is described as "man-tall" but with the traits of a lazy, uninspired boy who'd rather catch frogs, climb the castle walls, and just plain goof off. 

In recent years, I've grown to prefer my protags to be more mature and/or adult characters, and the 'young misfit' who becomes the 'chosen one' has grown stale. (On a complete sidenote, I'd like to see a fantasy novel where the 'chosen one' is an elderly bearded man, possibly a beggar, who finally gets a break when he somehow becomes the prophetic chosen one. As a nice way to deconstruct the 'young heroes' tropes maybe his ragtag team are all 'young whippersnappers'.) 

In terms of writing style, MS&T seems a lot more personable, friendlier maybe? Whereas Martin's prose is oftentimes dry and comes off like a university history professor sometimes.

I do find the beginning of the story a tad slow moving and uneventful. There's not much happening in the way of developing any semblance of a plot and I feel like Williams is just touring us around the castle at this point -- which wouldn't be so bad if he'd only toss a little drama in there a little more often. I mean,I'm at a part right now where Simon goes to the market, meets a friar and they talk and walk and buy some walnuts . . . something very, very small does happen at the end of this scene that earns Simon a tongue-lashing from his caretaker, but nothing significant.

I think Martin's characters were more interesting even when delivered in his dry voice, and he had some interesting hooks at the opening of GoT whereas I think MS&T is missing some of the oomph in these opening chapters.

But I think I'll stick with MS&T as I do think it has potential to become a fun, more light-hearted maybe, fantasy romp. 

[Raven]

The dragonbone chair did immediately make me think of the iron throne.

Growing up, with long black hair and running through the woods, I always related to the hero of stories. Then one day, I realized I was a bald man who played the harp and other instruments and tells stories, and I realized I was more like the bard. Now adays, I'm starting to feel like it won't be long before I am more like the older man who gives advice to the young adventurers. Lord help me gain the wisdom for that.
All that to say, I get what you're saying about young protagonists. I started writing a book series years ago, and one of the elements is that two characters grow up and get old throughout the scope of the books. But the main characters are always kids because the books are intended for kids.

On the other hand, I'm working on another book where someone is older.

Personally, I wouldn't mind more fantasy works about older protagonists, or from the perspective of older characters. There's been this myth knocking around for a while that people in medieval times did not live long, which I suspect may have influenced a lot of our fantasy stories as a result. Of course, it is typical to tell stories about young people, anyway. The whole coming of age thing, identity crisis (though the mid-life crisis is an identity crisis too, I suppose), etc.

Those books sound like something to check out sometime, at any rate.

[Coír Draoi Ceítien]

Well, it's a new month and a new year, so although everyone may already be knee-deep in books already, I have some new recommended reading and viewing for you.

Recommended Reading for January - for those who want a break from the norm: The Gormenghast Novels by Mervyn Peake

Here's one of the towering achievements of classic fantasy that's also one of the most underrated. The three novels - Titus Groan, Gormenghast, and Titus Alone - are dense, rich exercises in eccentric Dickensian characterization and surreal social commentary, forgoing the usual tropes of magic and mythology common in, well, every other work considered fantasy. I've heard that this Gothic tour de force takes its sweet time getting through plot, but for those of you who love sophisticated writing styles and richly crafted prose, you may very well be rewarded.

Trade (Book 1): https://www.amazon.com/Titus-Groan-Mervyn-Peake/dp/1585679070/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1515179352&sr=8-2&keywords=mervyn+peake
Trade (Book 2): https://www.amazon.com/Gormenghast-Book-Two-Trilogy/dp/1585679453/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1515179352&sr=8-3&keywords=mervyn+peake
Trade (Book 3): https://www.amazon.com/Titus-Alone-three-Gormenghast-Trilogy/dp/1585679925/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1515179352&sr=8-5&keywords=mervyn+peake
Kindle (Book 1): https://www.amazon.com/Titus-Groan-Gormenghast-Book-1-ebook/dp/B019EH6RCE/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1515179352&sr=8-2
Kindle (Book 2): https://www.amazon.com/Gormenghast-Mervyn-Peake-ebook/dp/B00X76SB00/ref=tmm_kin_title_1?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1515179352&sr=8-3
Kindle (Book 3): https://www.amazon.com/Titus-Alone-Gormenghast-Book-3-ebook/dp/B019EH6R0G/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1515179352&sr=8-5
Trade Omnibus: https://www.amazon.com/Gormenghast-Novels-Titus-Groan-Alone/dp/0879516283/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1515179352&sr=8-1&keywords=mervyn+peake



Recommended Viewing for January: The Adventures of Baron Munchausen (Terry Gilliam, 1988)

If you have a soft spot for Monty Python's surreal humor and a taste for imaginative adventure, I would seriously recommend this movie to you. An initial box office disappointment with a troubled production history, this cult classic has been warmly received by critics and subsequent audiences, following the legendary aristocrat and his crew of eccentrics from the midst of a war with the Ottoman Empire to various spectacular locations. It's a tribute to the power of imagination that I shouldn't be missed.

DVD: https://www.amazon.com/Adventures-Baron-Munchausen-20th-Anniversary/dp/B0011E5M66/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1515182475&sr=8-1&keywords=the+adventures+of+baron+munchausen+dvd
Blu-Ray: https://www.amazon.com/Adventures-Baron-Munchausen-Blu-ray/dp/B0011E5RXO/ref=tmm_blu_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1515182475&sr=8-1
Amazon Video: https://www.amazon.com/Adventures-Baron-Munchausen-John-Neville/dp/B0038KJCPS/ref=tmm_aiv_swatch_1?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1515182475&sr=8-1

[Raven]

Oh dear.
Great recommendations, Coir.
As for my participation this month -- Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell from last month is 1,000 pages long. I'm afraid I'm no where near done with it yet. I may be delinquent this month, as I expect, what with current life events, the aforementioned 1,000 page novel will occupy me for some time to come.

[Coír Draoi Ceítien]

I knew that when I recommended it. I just felt that I should make an entry for January, even though I suspected everyone would be occupied. Should I hold off on February? I don't want to cause a buildup of titles that no one's going to be able to get to.

All I would ask is that you keep the books is mind for future reference. For more quick entertainment, at least you got a movie to consider.

Question: should I move this January recommendation to a later month and let the topic go silent for a while until you've caught up on your reading?

[Raven]

I wouldn't worry about it for this month. In future, I think it may be beneficial to keep all recommendations to 1 book and 1 movie, rather than series of such. Just a thought. There's little chance of me reading or watching a series in a months time, really. I may  not even participate in every month's recommendations, but at least it may help some of us to pick titles. And if we grow here (which I'd really like) it might be nice to have as well.

Do you think that it may be worth having a new thread for each month? I.e., "February's Recommended Book and Movie" ?

[Coír Draoi Ceítien]

I think I'll try that - making a separate thread for each month.

Considering series, I can't really bring myself to recommend just one book if it's part of a bigger whole, hence why I've done what I have. I find it awkward to put up just one book for the month and then not necessarily pick the next installment for the following month. For example, if I were to recommend The Lord of the Rings, I personally would feel compelled to post all three parts as is rather than piecemeal; I think I would be cheating readers if I put only one installment up for one month, then doing a completely different book next, as you would lose the momentum of the story at large by being distracted with other stories. The best I could think of would be to post only standalone novels, as that may be less taxing on concentration.

Also, while I really want to recommend books, I think I should probably stick only to what I've read myself. It's probably not fair to just recommend on speculation, as that would be doing a disservice to the writers' hard work and our viewers' trust in our opinions. This really limits what I have to work with, but I think it may work better for all parties that way.